Does anyone know this R12 refrigerant substitute?

[IF YOU CAN'T SWIM DON'T JUMP IN]

WHEN the house goes get the whole system replaced with the new R410
stuff

TRANE systems are great
CARRIER calls it PURON or something like that.

CARS well i went agenst all the rules and dumped the R12 and charged it
with the R134 with out changing any thing.

the case, minus a few cans!

[John West]

they say it has considerably lower operating temperatures than R134a and
even R12, so an old compressor could well last longer before dieing on this
formula.

They say it works even better in R134a systems than the r134a gas. Will have
to give it a go next time I need a recharge. sounds promising.

This posting IS NOT a sales pitch.
Does anyone have any experience with "Freezone RB-276" (an R12
http://www.heco.net/FreeZone.html.
I have an '83 240D, an '83 300TD, and an '87 300D to maintain (and my
house's central system too) and I'm down to about my last precious
pound of R12.
OR, does anyone know of any OTHER R12 substitutes that don't require
(potentially bankrupting) retrofitting just to get lower performance?
Thanks!
?

[Rockman59]

You are looking for trouble if you put anything but the correct substance
(r-12 or R-134) in your factory AC system. The RB-276 may work fine for a
short time but then you will face the possiblity of replacing many expensive
parts. The best and cheapest way of fixing AC systems is to repair your
factory installation. R-12 is getting cheaper everday and nothing cools as
well. R-134 has always been inexpensive. Don't make a big-dollar mistake.
Repair your factory AC to factory specs.

[John]

First, I would bet your house is R-22 unless it's a really old system or a
wall unit. As for your cars, a re-fit isn't that expensive. You could redo
one car saving the extracted R-12 to use on the others. When each car was
too low, refit them as needed. At the age of your cars you'll do yourself a
big favor checking for compressor leaks (seals) and suction hose leaks
before the changeover. Same compressor will work fine on R-134a. Only
changed items are connection fittings, pressure switches and lubricant
(that's already mixed with the R-134.If you plan on keeping your cars for a
while, it's money well invested.

This posting IS NOT a sales pitch.
Does anyone have any experience with "Freezone RB-276" (an R12
http://www.heco.net/FreeZone.html.
I have an '83 240D, an '83 300TD, and an '87 300D to maintain (and my
house's central system too) and I'm down to about my last precious
pound of R12.
OR, does anyone know of any OTHER R12 substitutes that don't require
(potentially bankrupting) retrofitting just to get lower performance?
Thanks!
?

[Rockman59]

Here's some more info I picked up from an AC site that I asked about Free
Zone.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Without looking up that particular refrigerant I can tell you that it falls
into one of two categories, it is a hydrocarbon (flammable) or it is a
blend.

If it is a hydrocarbon it is illegal for use in Mobile a/c systems in 18
states. If it is a blend then when a leak occurs you have to recover,
evacuate and totally recharge.

Regardless of which category it falls into, to use it legally you have to
install the correct fittings and label the system. Most people violate this
law which leads to it being recovered by an auto a/c shop which results in
the contamination of all refrigerant in that recovery tank. This means that
this junk contaminates a lot of refrigerant costing the independent shops
lots of money. Them losing money means that they have to pass on this
expense to their innocent customers or go out of business.

In my experience there is never something for nothing in life. Either use
R12 or convert to R134a and you will be in good shape.

When you see these alternative refrigerants you should immediately think
"Snake Oil."

[Rockman59]

And a bit more info I found on a MB site talking about AC alternatives.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here's what the EPA has to say about altenative refrigerants..


Best I can figure.. The reason why these alternative refrigerants are not
used often are..

1 Not approved by auto manufacturer( someone paying someone else)

2 Illegal to release into the air, difficult to find someone to recover it.
(probably the biggest reason)

3 That's all I have so far..


There's plenty of r-12 still available, and it really doesn't cost that much
more.. A little more than double..

But, since I bought a Benz, I'm getting used to paying $60 for a $20 part

__________________



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[Lee Sharp]

Does anyone have any experience with "Freezone RB-276" (an R12
http://www.heco.net/FreeZone.html.
I have an '83 240D, an '83 300TD, and an '87 300D to maintain (and my
house's central system too) and I'm down to about my last precious
pound of R12.

People keep posting things, and NOT saying where they are. Oh well... I
will just do the 'Merican thing and ass-u-me you are next door. Drive to
Mexico. It is a short trip (for me, anyway... If your in the UK, you may
have trouble) and they charge up there all the time cheaply. You can still
get it there to do yourself, but you can not bring back cans of R-12.
As a side note, I do know a guy with a big accumulator, who charges up
his A/C every weekend, but has it recovered every Friday. He always seems
to have a good amount of cash...

Lee

[IF YOU CAN'T SWIM DON'T JUMP IN]

if any one read the sales pitch on the stuff you may be impressed.

now i don't need things fixed now but it may be worth a reading &
printing
was 8 pages.

don't be so fast to jump on a product that you have not read about,
might be crap
who knows
god knows 134 is crappy replacement

you can don load it.
i think i is the first posting on the subject

the case, minus a few cans!

[Rockman59]

With r-12 now around $25 per pound, all of these alternative refrigerants
are looking fairly silly.

Now, compare $50-60 worth of refrigerant to the cost of a new compressor, or
any other AC component, for that matter...

Freezone is around $17 per pound. How much are you saving?

[Susyn]

Thank you for your even-handed posting. Most of the others seem from
those who haven't read the website I referenced but just are all-out
against anything other than 12 or 134a.

I've experienced systems that were refitted from 12 to 134a and they
are now CRAP - tey DO NOT cool as well on 134a as they did on 12
(having changed all the necessary components) since the coils are too
small to work well with the less-efficient 134a.

FYI: I know someone who just swapped 134a for 12 in their system and
it ran well for a while but then had problems - granted, that's only
one system: maybe their system had other problems too. I don't know.
I _have_ heard lots about the incompatibility between 12/134a
lubricants & seals & etc...

As for 12 "getting cheaper everday [sic]"; how? There's no more to be
had from any of the sources _I_ have around here. btw: am in
Connecticut - s'kinda hard to drive to Mexico. :)

I've passed the website on to a couple of others (one of whom does auto
AC systems for a living, the other does building AC systems) and will
report back with their comments.

I'll ask around about the R410 to replace R22 (actually, I do not know
yet what is in my home system - just assumed it was 12 since the system
is that-many years old). I have yet to contact the company who
installed the system.

As for the 'Freeze-12': do you have a can kicking around? I'd like to
know who makes it so i can check it out further.

I'm not taking their website as gospel, yet. I can't easily afford
refitting systems (and if i do refit it - it will be for a refrigerant
that works AS WELL AS 12: so 134a is out), neither can i afford
replacing/repairing systems unneccessarily by using the wrong
refrigerants. I plan on checking-out the stuff as much as i can before
investing in it. They have used the stuff in big systems
(trucks/tractors) and seem to have had positive results.

I will not summarily dismiss them as snake oil - I have contacted them
for user references. Like i said: i can't find R12 anywhere in my area
and so I started looking around and found this stuff which no one has
talked about yet. My car systems are in good repair and haven't been
recharged in a number of years but still hold their contents reasonably
well. I'm planning for the future.

Any further comments will be appreciated.

========================================================

Post by IF YOU CAN'T SWIM DON'T JUMP IN
if any one read the sales pitch on the stuff you may be impressed.
now i don't need things fixed now but it may be worth a reading & printing was 8 pages.
don't be so fast to jump on a product that you have not read about,
might be crap; who knows god knows; 134 is crappy replacement
you can down load it.
i think i is the first posting on the subject
the case, minus a few cans!

[IF YOU CAN'T SWIM DON'T JUMP IN]

most of the blame on the 134 not working is that <i did> they over
charge them
<the conversions>
use only 80% of the weight.
also if you have an electric fan<s> jump it so it runs all the time.

i had no problem with my 84 300sd for over 3 years.
maybe the exception and not the rule?

the case, minus a few cans!